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View Full Version : Did Bruce lee really fight a muay thai boxer?


Swoods
06-11-2012, 07:27 AM
Did Bruce lee really fight a muay thai boxer? Some forums suggest he did?

Sheever
06-11-2012, 08:34 AM
Jesse tell about this in his book.
cant remember exactly but read after there.

Chen Zen
06-11-2012, 02:56 PM
Its my understanding that Bruce Never had a professional fight record, and Ive never been able to find any proof otherwise other than heresay or rumors.

Liberation Boxer
06-11-2012, 03:14 PM
Chen Zen,Not in a professional fight! Legend has it that this fight took place during the filming of the Big Boss in Thailand! Personally I think its just hearsay as Bruce himself never talked about it!

Sheever
06-12-2012, 03:19 AM
or better say no official fight.

The Spartan
06-12-2012, 05:10 AM
Maybe nothing official (other than his teenage days of boxing at his school). He did have many, many challenges that he accepted, fought and won. One witness by Linda (his wife), his producers from his films and by his students at various times in his life (remember cell phones and vid cams [as handy] were not around to provide a visual record).

Chen Zen
06-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Maybe nothing official (other than his teenage days of boxing at his school). He did have many, many challenges that he accepted, fought and won. One witness by Linda (his wife), his producers from his films and by his students at various times in his life (remember cell phones and vid cams [as handy] were not around to provide a visual record).

See this is what bothers me. The only record available of him ever fighting or winning a fight is Either (A) him (B) his loved ones or (C) people who trained under him or worked with him in film. The problem is that these people have too much to lose to say anything other than ":Bruce was the best."

Many people believe that he left WC and created JKD because he lost a fight. There were only about eight people who witnessed the fight, most of whom accompanied Bruce. Linda being one of those people. The man who fought him is still alive, but he doesnt talk much about it. One of his students spoke about it on another site and if I can find it Ill pprovide a link. Im not sure I believe that he lost, but Im not sure he won every fight he was ever in either.

Another thing to consider, if it wasnt Bruce, if it was any random Joe, would we take his word for it? I myself spent a long time trying to find any proof one way or another and have yet to find anything concrete.

Kuntaw
06-12-2012, 12:05 PM
ok, well....
1- i have also read about the fight in Thai Land.
it ended quickly with a side kick to the face if i am correct.
2-i do not care if Bruce Lee was the Best or Not...i like his fighting method.
That is all i need to know. I dont feel the need to prove or disprove the word of honorable people.
If they said Bruce did something, and i trust their word and other people of honor co-signing it...that is good enough for me.

If Guro Dan says Bruce was great...he was great.
I dont need more than that.

Chen Zen
06-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to take anything from Bruce, or is abilities.

With that said, I take very little at face value and rarely ever simply "take someone's word for it". Whether or not you ever lost a fight doesnt matter to me, it's whether or not you are honest.

Also, I would think, that for someone who is promoting an art, which Bruce was, that if you had a challenge from someone on your set, and you have tons of film equipment around, why not film this so that you could use it to further promote your art? These films dont exist, which, in the very least, is reasonable doubt that they even occured. At least ,IMO.

Liberation Boxer
06-12-2012, 12:21 PM
Lol...wait a minute! A guy you don't know comes up and expresses a desire to fight or do damage to you,his response should have been"wait! Let me make sure some cameras are rolling!" Lol...Too funny!

Kuntaw
06-12-2012, 12:30 PM
Lets film an assault.
That wont get anyone locked up at all.
And by the way, lets get the star hurt during production while we are at it...lol:p

Chen Zen
06-12-2012, 12:54 PM
Thats a pretty weak arguement.

An open challenge between two MA is assault? Then how come he never went to jail for winning these "Challenges"?

if he fought these challenges, as mentioned earlier, then he or no one else was obviously concerned about him being hurt.

There is not too much reason to believe these fights even occured, while there's plent of reason to believe that they didnt.

Sheever
06-12-2012, 02:57 PM
You have right to believe what you want but you havent got right to question peoples who whitnessed things like that fights especially when those peoples well respected by everybody.
Just to mention one Jesse Glover.

Chen Zen
06-12-2012, 03:19 PM
As a human being you have the right,and arguably the responsibility to question EVERYTHING. How else could you expect to be informed or eduacated about anything?

Sheever
06-12-2012, 03:43 PM
still you can show some respect to others Who deserves.

Chen Zen
06-12-2012, 04:18 PM
Ive disrespected no one.How did I? By saying that I cant find a record of him fighting,? or by saying its possible he lost a fight? or was it when I said the only record of him fighting is by people who had something to lose if he lost?

I really dont follow what your saying, but to clarify, all Im saying is that there are always more than one side to a story and dont believe everything you hear simply at face value. If you choose to believe something, IMO, you should research it first, to gain the most insight possible before simply deciding "I Believe".

Sheever
06-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Yes i did my research thanks

BRCLRY
06-12-2012, 07:41 PM
Id like to poke at the subtext of this question. I think the real question being asked is could Bruce Lee beat a thai boxer using JKD, which then begs the question, is JKD as effective as Thai Boxing in a duel type situation.

RockyJKD
06-13-2012, 05:06 AM
A good Muay Thai fighter will beat a crappy JKD fighter. A good JKD fighter will beat a crappy Muay Thai fighter.

A lot would depend on the ruleset which would likely put the JKD guy at a disadvantage. No that doesn't mean that the JKD guy wins if there are no rules as the MT guy can bite and poke eyes also but a ruleset should benefit the guy that trains and fights within that ruleset regularly.

A good boxer will be a good MMA guy in a boxing match. The MMA guys wins the MMA match.

BTW, none of my street fights are documented. If someone were to tell you about a fight I had you would haave to choose to believe it or not. I think the major factor would be the agenda of the person telling you and his credibility.

Chen Zen
06-13-2012, 11:03 AM
Well if its a question of style vs style I missed that. Imo, the JKD guy SHOULD win everytime rules or no. I feel this way becauseMuay Thai has a lot of arcing movement that a good JKD man should be able to take advantage of,and he should be able to keep it out of clinch range as well, negating a large portion of the thai fighters arsenal.

With that said, Thai fighters are some of the toughest out there and stylistically speaking, is likely the closest match to a JKD fighter. IMO.At the end of the day, however, style doesnt matters, its about the fighters.

As for your last point,I dont have any documented fights either and I agree, you have to look at the credibility of the people and the agendas. In the case of Bruce, you have credible people on both sides of the fence. And they all have an agenda.

Sheever
06-13-2012, 11:28 AM
i found this in a book by John Little
but Jesse wrote about it I am pretty sure
1 Pros
Elbows.Knees.Actual Combat

2 cons.
The punching is not of a high caliber:the "left jab" is poor,the uppercut almost nonexistent,the hook is inadequate.
Gloves prevent the use of fingerjab and palm smash
Lead foot attack lacking:no shin/knee lead attack and groin attack

Lacks economy structure and scientific leads
a sport
Unaccustomed to advantage targets attacks to eyes and groin-
the delicate movements

Chen Zen
06-13-2012, 12:45 PM
Thats almost word for word what Bruce said in one of his books.

I dont know what Bruce's exposure to Muay Thai was, where it was or how Muay Thai was practiced in that time, but many of the issue's he mentioned are not there, now, in good muay thai schools. The boxing has gotten better, as more schools are adapting it and it is similar to western boxing,or dirty boxing. There are more leadleg attacks and low level attacks as well. The popularization of MMA could be the cause for that. The stance is still lacking, and doesnt promote good footwork,and they still have alot of arcing strikes, many of which are uneconomical.

StevenR
06-13-2012, 09:42 PM
I think it's important to distinguish that Muay Thai is a sport vs JKD which typically is thought of as "street fighting".

They have a square stance because they don't have to protect their groin. A benefit of the stance is that it allows them to punch / strike with both left and right relatively equally because of their square facing stance.

They have adapted more boxing into their repertoire, but it was happening before the MMA craze. For instance, Dutch Muay Thai started incorporating western boxing and more evasive footwork back in the early 80s.

Also, Muay Thai already had 'dirty boxing' in Muay Boran. It also includes throws and such. Those techniques were taken out of Muay Thai and made illegal in matches because they're considered too dangerous.

Steven

Chen Zen
06-13-2012, 09:57 PM
Excellent post.

Im not sure that I would call JKD "Street Fighting" . To me its self defense through a strong offense. "Street fighting" just sounds rank and juvenile to me. That said, I understand your sentiment. Muay Thai is for sport, but has valueable techniques within, most of which originated from Muay Boran, as you noted.

The remark I made about MMA's influence had more to do with the low level leg kicking than anything else. I studied before the big UFC craze, and low level kicking wasnt a large part of the training or sparring, though it did happen. It seems now that, not only does it occur more, but is almost a staple of the system.

Makes me want to watch BLOODSPORT lol :rolleyes:

StevenR
06-13-2012, 10:16 PM
From what some of my Dutch friends tell me, they were incorporating low line kicks in Dutch Muay Thai back in the 80s as well (much more so than Muay Thai in Thailand at the time).

As far as JKD... some call it "Scientific Street Fighting". I don't like to use that term myself... for many reasons.

I usually call it "technical kickboxing" or "kickboxing for self-defense" when speaking to the uninitiated (because of the way it's generally taught).

Steven

Chen Zen
06-13-2012, 10:43 PM
I have a hard time trying to explain my feelings on JKD as well. "Scientifi Self Defense" is usually what I use to describe it, but its hard to pin down.

As for Dutch Muay Thai, Ive heard good things about it, but havent got to experience it first hand.

Swoods
06-14-2012, 02:30 PM
my is very much a sport,

if you were to match up a jkd man vs mt man, not street but no rules fight one to one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk_p15Og0q8

Not sure, most jkd would get one kick from these guys and run. like I said not street but man to man.

no one in there right mind say these men are the most conditioned guys on the planet.

I would not fight these men, I admit that, one kick and I would cry lol

Its not like the slow either, the dam fast

Sheever
06-14-2012, 02:40 PM
you see at 5.15 min some guys doesnt go flat down after punches like that.

Swoods
06-14-2012, 02:44 PM
there real tuff, you must admitt. I could not take that sort of pain

Swoods
06-14-2012, 02:46 PM
it was a great fight, I was getting all hyped watching that!!